Question for Trouble on Morning insulin and Cortisol?

[Dobermann]

Trouble,

Do you see any problems with my nutritonal stratergy for morning cardio?

07.30 Rise and consume 1xEgg white 1xStrong Black coffe
08.00 30-45 minutes on treadmill @ 10% Incline @ 3mph.
08.30 Consume various supp's along with anti-catabolic wonder stack 5g BCAA's 5g Creatine 5g Taurine 2g Fish Oil's
09.00 Breakfast 10 egg whites 100g of low-fat cheese, 25g Oatmeal


As im trying to keep cortisol and insulin spiking to a minimum but at the same time preventing catabolism.How do you feel about the above stratergy? Coffe has the benefit of libertaing FFA which is what im trying to accomplish with L.I.C as opposed to HIIT.However im sure it is also spking insulin and cortisol? i'd very much like your educated opinion on this stratergy and it's suitablity for my soma-type the functional ecto.

In fact trouble, how do you feel about caffine in general? esp morning and with carb meals

[trouble]

You may see yourself as a functional ectomorph; my read is that you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Lets see.

1. Cortisol am naturally rises to a peak at about 10am, you're hitting your CNS with a beta adrenergic activator KNOWN to block insulin receptor in muscle cell. Its action is through epinephrine response in liver, kidney and muscle.

Thus, you are damaging glucose metabolism by fueling epinephrine release, to enhanced fatty acid release and use as fuel.

Do not fuck with glucose metabolism - its counterproductive for androgen receptor activation and for the CNS action you DO want => thats ACh (acetylcholine) activation of muscle fiber motor units - that determines muscle cell viability (whether or not its gets chowed for fuel) and hypertrophy.

See, even if you have sufficient fat stores (and you a functional ecotmorphy would not have much because you don't store fat well), your body will preferentially break down protein for amino acid derived glucose. That part of energy metabolism won't be impaired by caffeine, but the glucose utilization will.

You will be catabolic (in cell protein breakdown mode) from your over night fast.

Thats insult added to injury, in my book.

2. Then you turn around and use oatmeal and lactose from the cottage cheese. Oh good, where is that glucose going to go? Into fat cells, because it can't be used for fueling muscle, you're desensitizing muscle and liver for glycogen storage, and you are making damn sure that you won't reform creatine or glycogen because of water balance issues.

Nope, don't see much use for this strategy. Fuel your muscles by eating a light protein feed with a little lower glycemic load carb (oat or rice bran) and supply a modest bridging protein (a little egg white or cottage cheese) and olive oil, and then eat your larger breakfast a little latter after your cardio.

I suggest green tea and extra water rather than coffee first thing in the morning. Insulin excess and epinephrine drive cortisol release, and thus its counterintuitive for your weight loss purposes. You don't want to suck down a dehydrator like coffee just before exertion anyway - do you?

[Dobermann]

Originally Posted by trouble

You may see yourself as a functional ectomorph; my read is that you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Lets see.

1. Cortisol am naturally rises to a peak at about 10am, you're hitting your CNS with a beta adrenergic activator KNOWN to block insulin receptor in muscle cell. Its action is through epinephrine response in liver, kidney and muscle.

Thus, you are damaging glucose metabolism by fueling epinephrine release, to enhanced fatty acid release and use as fuel.

Do not fuck with glucose metabolism - its counterproductive for androgen receptor activation and for the CNS action you DO want => thats ACh (acetylcholine) activation of muscle fiber motor units - that determines muscle cell viability (whether or not its gets chowed for fuel) and hypertrophy.

See, even if you have sufficient fat stores (and you a functional ecotmorphy would not have much because you don't store fat well), your body will preferentially break down protein for amino acid derived glucose. That part of energy metabolism won't be impaired by caffeine, but the glucose utilization will.

You will be catabolic (in cell protein breakdown mode) from your over night fast.

Thats insult added to injury, in my book.

2. Then you turn around and use oatmeal and lactose from the cottage cheese. Oh good, where is that glucose going to go? Into fat cells, because it can't be used for fueling muscle, you're desensitizing muscle and liver for glycogen storage, and you are making damn sure that you won't reform creatine or glycogen because of water balance issues.

Nope, don't see much use for this strategy. Fuel your muscles by eating a light protein feed with a little lower glycemic load carb (oat or rice bran) and supply a modest bridging protein (a little egg white or cottage cheese) and olive oil, and then eat your larger breakfast a little latter after your cardio.

I suggest green tea and extra water rather than coffee first thing in the morning. Insulin excess and epinephrine drive cortisol release, and thus its counterintuitive for your weight loss purposes. You don't want to suck down a dehydrator like coffee just before exertion anyway - do you?

__________________________________________________ __________

Ok trouble so from what I think I understand, as a "functional ecto" im risking muscle wasting from not eating enough protien pre-cardio from my 9 hour fast.And add'ing insult to injury with
caffine which is blunting insulin sensitivity.Which causes the breakfast im eating to be stored as fat.

Here is my revised plan

1.)07.45 1xEgg White/ 1(Tsp) olive oil /Green Tea and H2'o/ 25g Oats? I dont think we have oat bran this side of the pond.
08.15 *fasted* Morning Cardio
09.00 Egg Whites and Cheese + Coffe + H.E.A.T and various mounting supplements

I think? you mean me to have a bigger *bridge* without the caffine before I undertake my cardio followed by breakfast proper. I have to be carfull with carbs as im on a semi-keto diet so my allowance it capped at 70-100g a day.

2.) As regards the functional ecto I assume im that type as thats the desciption you gave me.or am I misunderstanding something? in fact WTF is a functional ecto anyway?? I always assumed im an ecto with insulin and cortisol issues.With the potential to become a meso once said problems are add'ressed.Are you planning on producing a thickys guide to somatypes at any point please T?


Edit: I found an online retailer that stocks oat-bran and barley flakes! :-)

[discuslifter]

Originally Posted by trouble

You may see yourself as a functional ectomorph; my read is that you have insulin sensitivity issues.

Lets see.

1. Cortisol am naturally rises to a peak at about 10am, you're hitting your CNS with a beta adrenergic activator KNOWN to block insulin receptor in muscle cell. Its action is through epinephrine response in liver, kidney and muscle.

Where did you come up with the 10 am figure? My ASI results show something quite different.

[trouble]

Cortisol is well known to rise sharply 45 minutes to an hour after awakening and to continue rising for several hours before peaking. Do a search on early morning peak and cortisol. See this article on cortisol and lifestyle pattern interactions.

What do you ASI results show?

[Dobermann]

Originally Posted by trouble

Cortisol is well known to rise sharply 45 minutes to an hour after awakening and to continue rising for several hours before peaking. Do a search on early morning peak and cortisol. See this article on cortisol and lifestyle pattern interactions.

What do you ASI results show?

Trouble,


How does my revised meal plan look? im a bit confused at the specific timimng of your meal comp recomendations.


Thank's

[trouble]

Eat soon after rising or you send your cortisol AND insulin levels up. Exnay with the ECAs and caffeine. Sure you are losing weight, but you are also losing a little muscle as well, since you are burning protein for energy.

[Dobermann]

Originally Posted by trouble

Eat soon after rising or you send your cortisol AND insulin levels up. Exnay with the ECAs and caffeine. Sure you are losing weight, but you are also losing a little muscle as well, since you are burning protein for energy.

Ok , but I take it the meal shouldent be too big?! otherwise wouldent it negate the effect of L.I.C? Thats why I thought I understood it from your post that I should have an egg white some LGI carbs and a little fat before cardio as a bridge and breakfast proper after.Or would it be better to just have a full breakfast AND then do the cardio? im really looking for an "optimal" answer if possible.How would a thermogenic like H.E.A.T fit in as well? I usually take that pre-cardio but as your advising against EC and Coffe pre workout , perhaps certain supps might be best taken after as well? as posted above im usibg 1g Green Tea and 3x H.E.A.T pre-cardio.

Great article on Cortisol BTW it's wasy for the layman to understand and very informative.It goes a long way to explaning my tiredness at times of the day even when iv'e had 8-9 hours of sleep.

Perhaps IA could post some stickies or articles like the above and or common questions you get asked in a format the layman could understand.So as to save you from having to reply to 10000 threads.

[trouble]

Its a little tricky knowing how much to eat before cardio. Enough to supply energy, since you're in deficit, but how well you tolerate food before cardio early morning is unknown to me. I would def do a shake of some kind and include that bridge protein. I would wait and have a full breakfast afterwards if you can afford it timewise (some can't).

You read up on HEAT and make up your own mind on whether to use it or not.

I will be eventually writing a FAQ, I don't have time to do it now.

[discuslifter]

Originally Posted by trouble

Cortisol is well known to rise sharply 45 minutes to an hour after awakening and to continue rising for several hours before peaking. Do a search on early morning peak and cortisol. See this article on cortisol and lifestyle pattern interactions.

What do you ASI results show?

My ASI shows a high level at 7 am and a much much lower level at noon. Basically highest levels at 7 am and an approximately exponential decay of cortisol levels through the day, 12 pm, 6 pm, and 10 pm.

If it raised from the quite high level at 7 am to an even higher level at 10 am, how would it drop so drastically by noon?