My Four Westside Barbell Variations

***iron addict*** · 03-11-2005, 02:30 PM

Here are my basic templates of modified Westside Barbell Routines. These are only the basic structure and they are each modified to meet the individual trainees goals, weaknesses, and recovery. This is accomplished by the specific lifts done and the volume and intensity levels of the lifts. What will these types of routine do for many if not most of you? Build strength faster than any BB program you have ever tried by a long shot. Just strength? Nope! For most of you, size will be awesome to. It may be the fastest way for many of you to reach your lifting goals. Whether you are a BB’er or PL’er. I CHALLENGE ANY OF YOU THAT ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH YOUR CURRENT LEVEL OF PROGRESS TO TRY ONE OF THESE FOR JUST 4 WEEKS!

Band work is only added after one or two 8-week cycles. After the first 8 weeks weak points and sticking points are reviewed and the next routine designed accordingly.

The first and perhaps the one most suited for “average/hardgainer” trainee is a two-day a week routine done on a Monday/Thursday, Tuesday/Friday type split. After 6 weeks or so, 2 days a week GPP work is added either on the workout days, or the days following. Speed work is included after a time for most trainees, but most start without it. I use this template a lot, and while I know most guys will automatically dismiss it as not enough work, and days in the gym, but it is EXTREMELY effective and probably the best bet for guys just starting out with a real strength oriented routine. Here is an example:

Monday
Pull-down abs 3 x 10
2-board BP x 1
Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8
DB Bench 4 x 8
Lateral Raise 4 x 8

Tuesday
GPP

Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
Box Squat x 1
SLDL x 8
Pullthroughs 3 x 8
Bent Row 4 x 8

Friday
GPP

Saturday
Off

Sunday
Off

Monday
Pull-down abs 3 x 10
GCBP BP x 1
Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8
DB Bench 4 x 8
Lateral Raise 4 x 8

Tuesday
GPP

Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
GM’s x 1
Box Squat 1 x 8
Pullthroughs 3 x 8
Dorian Row 4 x 8

Friday
GPP

Saturday
Off

Sunday
Off

Monday
Pull-down abs 3 x 10
Dumbbell Bench 2 x 6, PUASE EVERY REP
Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8
Tricep PD 2 x 10
Lateral Raise 4 x 15

Tuesday
GPP

Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Deadlift x 1
SLDL LIGHT 2 x 10
Glute/ham raise 3 x 8
Dorian Row 4 x 8

Friday
GPP

Saturday
Off

Sunday Off

The second variation is much like the second but with a third day added for upper back work. It is better suited to Bodybuilders that need a bit more volume for some lifts since by adding the third day there is less work done on the primary lift days. Again, speed work optional at first, and added in time.

This is a great format for those that don't recover that well, but are not super-hardgainers. As you can see there is no speed work. This is OK for those first starting WSB, or in my case, someone that needs a break.

Speed work can be added if preferred by either doing them before, or after the ME lift.

I have only shown one week, because I change my ME EVERY week, and accessory work every 2-3 weeks and quite frankly, for me every workout is different regardless of what I have planned as I go by feel most days.

It should give you an idea about another option for routine structure.

Monday, Back/Biceps/Abs
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
Dorian Row 4 x 8
Dumbbell Row 2 x 8

Tuesday GPP

Wednesday, ME BENCH
Board bench press, one MAX set of 1 rep
Skull Crushers 3 x 10 PAUSED on power rack pins
Dumbbell bench press 2 x 10 PAUSE EVERY REP
Lateral raise 3 x 10

Thursday Off

Friday, ME Squat
Band Pull-down Abs 2 x 10
Safety Squat Bar box Squat with bands x 1 rep max
SLDL 1 x 8
Pullthroughs 3 x 8

Saturday GPP

Sunday Off

__________________________________________________ ______________________

This format is for guys that have slightly above average to well above average recovery ability. If you are a hardgainer or extreme hardgainer this is not the format to attempt.
It is only a SAMPLE and is not laid out exactly like I write them for clients for a few reasons. I wanted to make sure EVERYONE had access and ability to do the lifts listed, and everyone that has even a modest gym can do these. I used a 3-week (it ends up being closer to 4 actual weeks because of the rotating format) on the ME lifts for simplicity sake. SOME lifters do get a 3 week rotation on ME lifts and other get 2 weeks, or even one. There is no waving of the weights or volume for either the DE work or the repetition work. Again this was done for simplicity sake, and I also can’t give it all away-lol. And last but not least, not knowing who will be attempting it, it is quite generic. But I will bet that anyone that recovers even remotely well will do extremely well on it. After just 4 weeks you WILL have a higher bench, squat and deadlift.

Monday ME Squat,
Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps
Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets.
Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure
Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF

Tuesday Off

Wednesday ME Bench
CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps
Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure
Dumbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure
Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF
Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10

Thursday Off

Friday DE Squat
DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure
Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8
Lat Pulldown, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF
BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF

Saturday Off

Sunday Off

__________________________________________________ __________

Monday DE Bench
Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
JM Press 3 x 6, NTF
Tricep Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF
Hanging leg Raises 3x 10

Tuesday Off

Wednesday ME Squat
Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps
Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets.
Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure
Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF

Thursday Off

Friday ME Bench
CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps
Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure
Dumbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure
Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF
Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10

Saturday Off

Sunday Off

__________________________________________________ __________

Monday DE Squat
DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure
Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8
Lat pull-down, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF
BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF

Tuesday Off

Wednesday DE Bench
Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
JM Press 3 x 6, NTF
Triceps Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF
Hanging leg Raises 3 x 10

Thursday Off

Friday ME Squat
Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps
Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets.
Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure
Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF

Saturday Off

Sunday Off
__________________________________________________ _________________

Monday ME Bench
CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps
Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure
Dumbbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure
Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF
Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10

Tuesday Off

Wednesday DE Squat
DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure
Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8
Lat pulldown, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF
BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF

Thursday Off

Friday DE Bench
Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets
JM Press 3 x 6, NTF
Tricep Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF
Dumbbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF
Hanging leg Raises 3 x 10

* NTF means NOT to Failure

The standard Westside Barbell format is this:

ME Squat day on Monday
ME Bench on Wednesday
DE Squat on Friday
DE Bench on Sunday

Of course the lifts are done according the lifters goals, weak muscles/sticking points, and recovery ability. This format overtrains a lot of people, but nothing works better for those that can recover from it.

If you have just read this and are totally unfamiliar with WSB DO NOT POST A BUNCH OF BASIC QUESTIONS. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT DE OR ME MEANS, OR OTHER SIMILAR STUFF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO ATTEMPT THIS. YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF WESTSIDE BARBELL PRINCIPLES BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS. Go to the WSB section of my site and read up and then ask away about how to make it work better for YOU.

Iron Addict

Siberian · 12-17-2005, 02:26 PM

IA -

im curious as to how close to failure you would advise going to on the variation that is intended for hardgainers. some of the exercises have 4 sets so i assume you dont intend someone to take all of them to failure. id like to give this workout a shot but i dont want to overdo and ruin my chances of progress. any tips?

***iron addict*** · 12-19-2005, 12:00 PM

Only the last one to, or better yet, one rep short of failure.

IA

Tough old Man · 07-19-2006, 10:04 AM

I noticed that most of these routine don't have any overhead pressing in them but have lateral raises. Why is that. Is it because of the volume of bench presses making overhead not needed.

I was looking at another site yesterday and a guy posted his routine which included a day for shoulders. One of the mod's who does several meets told him to scrap the shoulder day as shoulders exercises weren't necessary. I don't get it.

Hoops · 07-19-2006, 10:24 AM

IA uses dumbell shoulder presses in there as well. Shoulders are a really small muscle and since you use them in virtually all lifts to some degree and hit them pretty damn hard on all pressing I can't imagine doing too much more work on them. Plus look at how many people have shoulder injuries from lifting. Doesn't seem like there is a need for more work on them just based on that.

***iron addict*** · 07-23-2006, 03:59 PM

They get pounded everytime you do any chest pressing. Front delts are usually the most overworked bodypart. Another day just for shoulders is just a bad idea.

IA

Tough old Man · 07-24-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iron addict

They get pounded everytime you do any chest pressing. Front delts are usually the most overworked bodypart. Another day just for shoulders is just a bad idea.

IA

Damn you find one really experience guy and then compare them to another experience guy and they don't even know each other and they all have basically the same ideas and thoughts. Here i thought the other guy was full of shit, but if IA says the same thing then it must be 100% factual.

So it looks like all we need for shoulders is once in a while do a few sets of bent laterals and side laterals for the rear and side delts. Is this true IA?

rstar32 · 07-24-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough old Man

Damn you find one really experience guy and then compare them to another experience guy and they don't even know each other and they all have basically the same ideas and thoughts. Here i thought the other guy was full of shit, but if IA says the same thing then it must be 100% factual.

So it looks like all we need for shoulders is once in a while do a few sets of bent laterals and side laterals for the rear and side delts. Is this true IA?

IA has me doing DB shoulder presses, so he must think there is some use for them.

phillyvikingfan · 11-27-2006, 06:36 PM

very cool

mla · 01-10-2009, 03:00 PM

If I am unable to do heavy squats and deadlifts due to a lower back injury, can I switch the max effort squats and deadlifts with like rows and pull-ups, which I am able to do?

Also, I was wondering why there are no max effort back exercises. Are the squats and deadlifts supposed to be enough for your back?

03-11-2005, 02:30 PM	#1
*iron addict* Voice of Reason Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Zen Posts: 22,065	My Four Westside Barbell Variations Here are my basic templates of modified Westside Barbell Routines. These are only the basic structure and they are each modified to meet the individual trainees goals, weaknesses, and recovery. This is accomplished by the specific lifts done and the volume and intensity levels of the lifts. What will these types of routine do for many if not most of you? Build strength faster than any BB program you have ever tried by a long shot. Just strength? Nope! For most of you, size will be awesome to. It may be the fastest way for many of you to reach your lifting goals. Whether you are a BB’er or PL’er. I CHALLENGE ANY OF YOU THAT ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH YOUR CURRENT LEVEL OF PROGRESS TO TRY ONE OF THESE FOR JUST 4 WEEKS! Band work is only added after one or two 8-week cycles. After the first 8 weeks weak points and sticking points are reviewed and the next routine designed accordingly. The first and perhaps the one most suited for “average/hardgainer” trainee is a two-day a week routine done on a Monday/Thursday, Tuesday/Friday type split. After 6 weeks or so, 2 days a week GPP work is added either on the workout days, or the days following. Speed work is included after a time for most trainees, but most start without it. I use this template a lot, and while I know most guys will automatically dismiss it as not enough work, and days in the gym, but it is EXTREMELY effective and probably the best bet for guys just starting out with a real strength oriented routine. Here is an example: Monday Pull-down abs 3 x 10 2-board BP x 1 Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8 DB Bench 4 x 8 Lateral Raise 4 x 8 Tuesday GPP Wednesday Off Thursday Weighted Abs 2 x 10 Box Squat x 1 SLDL x 8 Pullthroughs 3 x 8 Bent Row 4 x 8 Friday GPP Saturday Off Sunday Off Monday Pull-down abs 3 x 10 GCBP BP x 1 Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8 DB Bench 4 x 8 Lateral Raise 4 x 8 Tuesday GPP Wednesday Off Thursday Weighted Abs 2 x 10 GM’s x 1 Box Squat 1 x 8 Pullthroughs 3 x 8 Dorian Row 4 x 8 Friday GPP Saturday Off Sunday Off Monday Pull-down abs 3 x 10 Dumbbell Bench 2 x 6, PUASE EVERY REP Bar Extensions in Rack 3 x 8 Tricep PD 2 x 10 Lateral Raise 4 x 15 Tuesday GPP Wednesday Off Thursday Deadlift x 1 SLDL LIGHT 2 x 10 Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 Dorian Row 4 x 8 Friday GPP Saturday Off Sunday Off The second variation is much like the second but with a third day added for upper back work. It is better suited to Bodybuilders that need a bit more volume for some lifts since by adding the third day there is less work done on the primary lift days. Again, speed work optional at first, and added in time. This is a great format for those that don't recover that well, but are not super-hardgainers. As you can see there is no speed work. This is OK for those first starting WSB, or in my case, someone that needs a break. Speed work can be added if preferred by either doing them before, or after the ME lift. I have only shown one week, because I change my ME EVERY week, and accessory work every 2-3 weeks and quite frankly, for me every workout is different regardless of what I have planned as I go by feel most days. It should give you an idea about another option for routine structure. Monday, Back/Biceps/Abs Weighted Abs 2 x 10 Dorian Row 4 x 8 Dumbbell Row 2 x 8 Tuesday GPP Wednesday, ME BENCH Board bench press, one MAX set of 1 rep Skull Crushers 3 x 10 PAUSED on power rack pins Dumbbell bench press 2 x 10 PAUSE EVERY REP Lateral raise 3 x 10 Thursday Off Friday, ME Squat Band Pull-down Abs 2 x 10 Safety Squat Bar box Squat with bands x 1 rep max SLDL 1 x 8 Pullthroughs 3 x 8 Saturday GPP Sunday Off __________________________________________________ ______________________ This format is for guys that have slightly above average to well above average recovery ability. If you are a hardgainer or extreme hardgainer this is not the format to attempt. It is only a SAMPLE and is not laid out exactly like I write them for clients for a few reasons. I wanted to make sure EVERYONE had access and ability to do the lifts listed, and everyone that has even a modest gym can do these. I used a 3-week (it ends up being closer to 4 actual weeks because of the rotating format) on the ME lifts for simplicity sake. SOME lifters do get a 3 week rotation on ME lifts and other get 2 weeks, or even one. There is no waving of the weights or volume for either the DE work or the repetition work. Again this was done for simplicity sake, and I also can’t give it all away-lol. And last but not least, not knowing who will be attempting it, it is quite generic. But I will bet that anyone that recovers even remotely well will do extremely well on it. After just 4 weeks you WILL have a higher bench, squat and deadlift. Monday ME Squat, Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets. Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF Tuesday Off Wednesday ME Bench CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure Dumbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10 Thursday Off Friday DE Squat DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8 Lat Pulldown, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF Saturday Off Sunday Off __________________________________________________ __________ Monday DE Bench Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets JM Press 3 x 6, NTF Tricep Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF Dumbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF Hanging leg Raises 3x 10 Tuesday Off Wednesday ME Squat Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets. Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF Thursday Off Friday ME Bench CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure Dumbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10 Saturday Off Sunday Off __________________________________________________ __________ Monday DE Squat DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8 Lat pull-down, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF Tuesday Off Wednesday DE Bench Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets JM Press 3 x 6, NTF Triceps Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF Dumbbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF Hanging leg Raises 3 x 10 Thursday Off Friday ME Squat Arched Back Good Morning in Rack, 2 inches above parallel, 1 max set of 3 reps Box Squat 2 x 8 at parallel, should have 2 reps left in you for all sets. Glute/ham raise 3 x 8 to failure Barbell Row 3 x 8, NTF Dumbbell Curl 3 x10, NTF Saturday Off Sunday Off __________________________________________________ _________________ Monday ME Bench CG bench press in rack 4 inches from chest, 1 max set of 1 reps Skull Crushers, straight bar 3 x 10, only last set to failure Dumbbell bench press 2 x 10, only last set close to failure Lateral raise 4 x 10, NTF Abs, HEAVY 3 x 10 Tuesday Off Wednesday DE Squat DE Box squat at parallel 2 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets Pull-Throughs 3 x 10 Only Last set close to Failure Glute/ham 3 x to failure, or reverse hyper 3 x 8 Lat pulldown, wide grip 4 x 6, NTF BB Curl 3 x 6, NTF Thursday Off Friday DE Bench Speed Bench press 3 reps x 6 sets, 45 TIMED seconds between sets JM Press 3 x 6, NTF Tricep Pushdowns 3 x 8, NTF Dumbbell Shoulder press 3 x 8 OR lateral raises, NTF Hanging leg Raises 3 x 10 * NTF means NOT to Failure The standard Westside Barbell format is this: ME Squat day on Monday ME Bench on Wednesday DE Squat on Friday DE Bench on Sunday Of course the lifts are done according the lifters goals, weak muscles/sticking points, and recovery ability. This format overtrains a lot of people, but nothing works better for those that can recover from it. If you have just read this and are totally unfamiliar with WSB DO NOT POST A BUNCH OF BASIC QUESTIONS. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT DE OR ME MEANS, OR OTHER SIMILAR STUFF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO ATTEMPT THIS. YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF WESTSIDE BARBELL PRINCIPLES BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS. Go to the WSB section of my site and read up and then ask away about how to make it work better for YOU. Iron Addict __________________ For info about personal training consultations email me at ironaddict@ironaddicts.com "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us, universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein __________________________________________________ _____ If you are NOT a paying client, a friend, or a staff member, do NOT PM or email me asking for advice. Please post your questions on the forums. I simply do not have time to answer everyone's questions.

12-19-2005, 12:00 PM	#3
*iron addict* Voice of Reason Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Zen Posts: 22,065	Only the last one to, or better yet, one rep short of failure. IA __________________ For info about personal training consultations email me at ironaddict@ironaddicts.com "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us, universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein __________________________________________________ _____ If you are NOT a paying client, a friend, or a staff member, do NOT PM or email me asking for advice. Please post your questions on the forums. I simply do not have time to answer everyone's questions.

07-23-2006, 03:59 PM	#6
*iron addict* Voice of Reason Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Zen Posts: 22,065	They get pounded everytime you do any chest pressing. Front delts are usually the most overworked bodypart. Another day just for shoulders is just a bad idea. IA __________________ For info about personal training consultations email me at ironaddict@ironaddicts.com "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us, universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein __________________________________________________ _____ If you are NOT a paying client, a friend, or a staff member, do NOT PM or email me asking for advice. Please post your questions on the forums. I simply do not have time to answer everyone's questions.

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12-17-2005, 02:26 PM	#2
Siberian Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,852	IA - im curious as to how close to failure you would advise going to on the variation that is intended for hardgainers. some of the exercises have 4 sets so i assume you dont intend someone to take all of them to failure. id like to give this workout a shot but i dont want to overdo and ruin my chances of progress. any tips?

07-19-2006, 10:04 AM	#4
Tough old Man Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 119	I noticed that most of these routine don't have any overhead pressing in them but have lateral raises. Why is that. Is it because of the volume of bench presses making overhead not needed. I was looking at another site yesterday and a guy posted his routine which included a day for shoulders. One of the mod's who does several meets told him to scrap the shoulder day as shoulders exercises weren't necessary. I don't get it.

07-19-2006, 10:24 AM	#5
Hoops Socialist Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,845	IA uses dumbell shoulder presses in there as well. Shoulders are a really small muscle and since you use them in virtually all lifts to some degree and hit them pretty damn hard on all pressing I can't imagine doing too much more work on them. Plus look at how many people have shoulder injuries from lifting. Doesn't seem like there is a need for more work on them just based on that.

11-27-2006, 06:36 PM	#9
phillyvikingfan Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15	very cool

01-10-2009, 03:00 PM	#10
mla Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 24	If I am unable to do heavy squats and deadlifts due to a lower back injury, can I switch the max effort squats and deadlifts with like rows and pull-ups, which I am able to do? Also, I was wondering why there are no max effort back exercises. Are the squats and deadlifts supposed to be enough for your back?

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