Question about mods to one of IA's beginner routines

[DanP]

I've decided that I think the following routine from the sticky is the one with which I'll make the most progress:

Day one, week one

Dips 3 x 10

Incline Bench Press 3 x 6

Lateral Raise 4 x 10

Laying Tricep Extensions 3 x 8-10


Day two, week one

Wide Grip Pull-Down/Up 3 x 8

Chest Supported Row, or Barbell Row 3 x 8-10

Barbell Curl 3 x 10

Resistance Abs 3 x 10


Day three, week one

Squat 3 x 6-10

Leg Press 2 x 15

Good-Morning or Stiff-Legged Deadlift 2 x 8

Calf Raise RP 2 x 15/30


Day one, week two

Bench Press 3 x 6-10

Incline DB Press 2 x 10-12

Military Press 3 x 10

Tricep Pus-Downs 3 x 8-10


Day two, week two

Supinated Grip Pull-Down/Up 4 x 8

Dumbbell Row 3 x 10

Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8

Reverse Curl 2 x 10

Hanging Leg Raises

Day three, week two

Deadlift 1 x 8

Safety Squat, or hack squat, 2 x 6-10

Glute/Ham Raise 3 x 8

Leg Press Calf Raise
, 3 x 15

I like it because it's a little more focused on lower weight/higher reps than others and I like the rotational aspect of it. Over the course of a week I'll be doing roughly the same as I'm doing now in terms of exercises, frequency and intensity but I'd been doing a full-body workout every time so am not hitting any one muscle group hard yet may have too little rest time between workouts (a no-win).

I do have some questions about modifications, though, and was hoping for some input.

1. Chest. Never been a big bench fan and really prefer push-ups, either weighted or unweighted. If I'm going to make this substitution, should I keep the #s of sets the same as is recommended and simply alter the reps? I have been altering the position to mirror that of the recommended benching technique (flat, incline, etc.).

2. Legs. I really don't think I can do a hack squat and I don't think my gym has the right equipment for glute/ham raises (unless I can use one of those spine extension racks). With that in mind, where would be appropriate to work in the following:

Trap bar dead lift
Split squat
Lunges
Glute/leg machines other than leg press (not sure if any of these are of any real benefit...)

3. Is it possible to break this up into four distinct workout groups, a chest/triceps/shoulders day, a back/biceps/abs day, a quads/glutes day and a hamstrings/lower back/calves day, with the same # of exercises for each? My thought was that I'd still maintain a three day schedule but do a bit more each day by doing something to the effect of:

Day 1: whole back/bi workout, 1/2 quad/glute workout

Day 2: whole ham workout, 1/2 chest/tri workout

Day 3: whole quad/glute workout, 1/2 back/bi workout

and so on where I'm mixing up upper and lower body but never hitting the same groups in consecutive workouts. Or will I have problems separating out the two leg workouts since so many lifts are compound lifts hitting the whole leg?

[kram]

Originally Posted by DanP

1. Chest. Never been a big bench fan and really prefer push-ups, either weighted or unweighted. If I'm going to make this substitution, should I keep the #s of sets the same as is recommended and simply alter the reps? I have been altering the position to mirror that of the recommended benching technique (flat, incline, etc.).

Any particular health reason you can not bench? If not, I would do the routine as written... However, depending on your goals, push-ups are OK if you can load them safely. If you have the equipment available to do ring push-ups, that would torch your chest. I'd personally do dips before bothering with push-ups. I would keep reps on the higher end for push-ups...

Originally Posted by DanP

2. Legs. I really don't think I can do a hack squat and I don't think my gym has the right equipment for glute/ham raises (unless I can use one of those spine extension racks). With that in mind, where would be appropriate to work in the following:

Trap bar dead lift
Split squat
Lunges
Glute/leg machines other than leg press (not sure if any of these are of any real benefit...)

Trap-bar deads can be done as your main deadlift movement.
Split Squats or lunges can be done as accessory work after your squats or deads.
GHR - Go to youtube & search for ghetto GHR. Will give you some ideas of how to substitute it. Also, if you have a 45 deg reverse extension, you can do it weighted or with a band. Not a sub for a real GHR, but better than nothing.

Originally Posted by DanP

3. Is it possible to break this up into four distinct workout groups, a chest/triceps/shoulders day, a back/biceps/abs day, a quads/glutes day and a hamstrings/lower back/calves day, with the same # of exercises for each? My thought was that I'd still maintain a three day schedule but do a bit more each day by doing something to the effect of:

Day 1: whole back/bi workout, 1/2 quad/glute workout

Day 2: whole ham workout, 1/2 chest/tri workout

Day 3: whole quad/glute workout, 1/2 back/bi workout

and so on where I'm mixing up upper and lower body but never hitting the same groups in consecutive workouts. Or will I have problems separating out the two leg workouts since so many lifts are compound lifts hitting the whole leg?

Sorry man, but you're confusing the crap outta me with this last one.... Why not just do it as written? See how you respond & then make changes IF necessary.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by kram

Any particular health reason you can not bench? If not, I would do the routine as written... However, depending on your goals, push-ups are OK if you can load them safely. If you have the equipment available to do ring push-ups, that would torch your chest. I'd personally do dips before bothering with push-ups. I would keep reps on the higher end for push-ups...



Trap-bar deads can be done as your main deadlift movement.
Split Squats or lunges can be done as accessory work after your squats or deads.
GHR - Go to youtube & search for ghetto GHR. Will give you some ideas of how to substitute it. Also, if you have a 45 deg reverse extension, you can do it weighted or with a band. Not a sub for a real GHR, but better than nothing.




Sorry man, but you're confusing the crap outta me with this last one.... Why not just do it as written? See how you respond & then make changes IF necessary.

I wouldn't say there's a health reason I can't bench, however since my gym time is my daily "me time" I don't have a spotter which means I'm not going to push myself as close to failure on BB bench press and I'll have a much harder time getting into position with DB bench presses.

Ok, let me see if I can clarify with the last one, because I agree, the way I wrote it was a little confusing. So yesterday I did the chest/tricep routine as written (but with pushups) and at the end I was thinking that, while my chest/triceps were pushed to the limit I still had plenty of energy and would have liked to extend my workout a little.

I could easily have done a little bit of leg work, but couldn't have done a full leg routine, maybe half of one, for a total of six exercises. If I had four day's worth of muscle groups to work I could do 1.5 of the routines each time I worked out without ever working the same muscle group on consecutive workouts. The hardgainer routine isn't that far off from this but doesn't seem to have quite the same variety and is a little too focused on light weight/high rep for my goals.

For now going to give the stated routine a little longer and see how it works, was just wondering if the increased number or exercises/muscle groups would be a good or bad thing.

[kram]

Ahhhh....I gotcha! You could make it work. Try typing it up & let's see what you have in mind.

I've done full-body routines in the past (& liked them quite a bit)...but if you dont set it up right & regulate the intensity you can halt progress pretty quick.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by kram

Ahhhh....I gotcha! You could make it work. Try typing it up & let's see what you have in mind.

I've done full-body routines in the past (& liked them quite a bit)...but if you dont set it up right & regulate the intensity you can halt progress pretty quick.

The more I think about it the more I think it'll be as written but the order would be chest/tris/some legs, back/bis/abs, full legs with cardio interspersed and a complete rest day after the full leg workout. It's really the fact that I don't want to do lower body on only one day (even though cardio always involves legs), so figured that I'd find a day with some energy left and add in something like trap bar deads and one-legged leg presses/lunges.

[DanP]

Never mind, conventional wisdom prevails; sticking to the routines as written (with the exception of a few individual exercise swaps).