Individualizing Supplements for mixed body types

[Hoops]

OK trouble, you've spelled out a LOT of stuff for hardgainers ectos, and our over weight guys the endo's. Now here's where I'm getting confused other than just the pure volume of information you've posting. SO bare with me if You've glazed over a few key things as I'm willing to bet I'm not alone and hell it'd be nice to have this all in once place for everyone.

Lets say you are like most of us and a mixed bag of body types. I'll use myself here to make things simple for me at least. I've got some meso and some ecto features. I can gain fat or lose it pretty easily. I generally stay relatively lean. I have a difficult time adding muscle mass, but it's not impossible. Relatively low stress but maybe I'm just used to the level I"m at? My sleep is sporadic, I don't have a set work/school schedule and as a result it's hard for me to sleep when I want/need to. Hopefully I'm not missing too much important info here to get things rolling at least.

You posted these supplements as must haves for most of us.

Vit E, mixed tocopherols
Vit C
beta carotene
Multivitamin plus minerals
KRALA
CEE
BCAAs
Cissus
tumeric extract
cordyceps
Glucosamine HCl
Lysine
inositol/glucuronolactone/IP6


B6 (P5P), B12, taurine, GABA, folic acid, magensium citrate, TMG, sam-e --unless you are an over-methylator.

BTW tumeric or turmeric? Cause I can't find tumeric.

Aright so now we've got a lot of other supplements that you're recommending in the "putting it together thread." I know those were more specific for that individual so I'm a little unsure where to go from there.

Now we have the stress supplements. These seem to play a roll in the ecto and the endo correct? SAM-e, NAC, GABA, and ALCAR are listed here. NAC and ALCAR seem like winners regardless imo. Guess "over-mythilator" is slipping by me here.

You also in that thread added zinc gluconate, selenium methionate (can't find that either btw), lysine, biotin, bacopa, theanin, rhodiola, and magnesium citrate. So how do we exactly go and customize which of these we need and which are for different body types when we have different body types going on?

This becomes more important probably with people who are mostly ecto but have some endo traits or the other way around.

Anyway I understand a lot of this has been covered if you put a lot of different threads together, but it would be really helpful and I know at least I will be very grateful if you give us some more insight on how to tailor these supplements for our individual needs ourselves without bugging you 

[Hoops]

I think I got ahead of myself with my question. Clearly I WANT to get to where I can look at my body type and then supplement to optimize myself so to speak. What we need is not to get to the supplements first, but to find a way to individualize what we need to fix.

For example we know that someone isn't a ecto for just one reason. There are many that you've covered. But we're not all extreme cases where we'll pick up on our problems as easily as others. We also live with them so it's harder for us to see which things are normal and which aren't. So short of doing a blood test or what ever and posting results the real question I should have made cleared and more specific is this. How can I go about picking out the signs that will lead me to the solutions?

For example when does stress become an issue for those of us with low to moderate stress we might not see it as a problem or even notice that we have it when it's actually something worth addressing.

[Hoops]

Guess I'll start a discussion about this idea of ectomorphic bodytype, what it is, how we can use our understanding of the hardwiring to manipulate gut morphology and neurochemistry to promote a more moderate, mesomorphic metabolic status.

First we need to chat with some ectomorphs here, see if we can identify common behavioral and physiological attributes that make these folk hard-gainers.

Need to know:

Sleep patterns and quality - hours per night, how well you sleep

Energy levels, level of daily activity (betcha can't sit still for long).

Eating preferences and patterns. Hunger, thirst, snacking.

Behavioral patterns - emotional level, state of your nerves, stress loads.

Health history - tendency towards illness, GI upset, allergies, insomnia, familial disease, thyroid problems.

'Taint just one cause for this bodytype.

This is taken from the hardgainer forum where you started trying to break down what we're looking for in the hardgainers. Now would there be more questions to start picking apart the endo? Would there even been things worth looking for in the meso to improve or adjust for?

And of course the BIG deal is what exactally are we looking for in these? When do we see that the trait is ecto or endo or meso?

I know this is a very large topic to cover, but I really feel that this will be benificial to everyone. Once we can clearly see the issues that need to be addressed we can then get a LOT more benifit out of all the science and advice you've already given on how to address these things.

[trouble]

I guess what you want me to do is sum it up as I understand it.

Here goes:


Functional Ectomorphs and Endomorphs are similar in their pathophysiological response to stress.

The primary difference lies in the response to stress.

One has impaired insulin response. This causes the primary lipid regulation, the cholesterol pathway to become dysregulated, and it has a profound effect on pancreas action. Cells in the pancreas become sensitized to the release of insulin, at the cost of glucagon.

This causes a shift in liver lipid production away from CCK and bile acid release. Taurine is synthesized in sufficient quantity because excess bile acid isn't sucking away taurine. Glycine, proline, and glutamine signalling of stomach acid is normal. Adrenal production of steroids remains intact until cortisol overstimulation dominates adnrenocorticol hormone cascades and exhaustion occurs, typically in the mid-30s to mid-40s. Meanwhile, liver lipid dysfunction has caused changes in thyroid hormone metabolism and slowed conversion of T4 to T4, and it and the presence of periodic swings between elevated glucose and low blood glucose, with cortisol and insulin, paired with a change in grelin and leptin, cause pathological shifts in fat cell regulation. Fat cells produce, along with liver, pathologies in ion balance maintenance in cells and tissue, and this downregulates glucose storage. Energy metabolism becomes dominated by fatty acid oxidation, and glucose fails to exert dominance in the control of androgen receptor. Although sex steroids are produced in abundance, they must compete for AR binding with cholesterol, fatty acids, and fat cell hormones. Coupled with fat cell dysregulation, we have muscle cell energetics and turnover rates affected. Muscle fiber differentiation is altered as well, favoring anaerobic nonadaptable type IIA, and with fat hormone impaired immune function, we have mild muscle cell wasting.

There are other aspects to this endomorph pathology, and I have given a very simplistic description. However, it does explain the central features: the tendency to put on muscle mass once insulin control is improved, mainly by allowing type IIA fibers to become activated, along with Type I under cardio provocation...thats assuming that we have tight dietary control of insulin and blood glucose.

Correction of liver lipid profiles is our primary objective, alongside stress modulation and repair of key amino acid pathways in liver that drive neurotransmitter balance and restore a modicum of control over excitatory neurochemistry. To to that, we must repair glutmate catalyzed nitrogen cycle biochemistry in liver and brain.

This slowly wheels lipid cell biochemistry back under more normalized control, once pancreatic islet cell functional balance of glucagon and insulin are brought into line.

That is achieved primarily by diet, through use of cardio alongside muscle training, by stress response reconditioning, through proper sleep hygiene, active stress response modulation (meditation and changes in lifestyle) and correction of breathing and avoidance of hypoxia and hyperosmolarity, and by judicious use of supplements.

Note the order of importance for corrective factor application.

Before I address ectomorphy, I need to make sure that this explantion makes sense.

[Hoops]

I always had the impression that endo's put on muscle fairly easily in general?

Anyway I grasph the issues here. A little unsure on how to pick out which apply to certain people or the methods of detection. I supose you'll address this better once you've spelled out the ecto so I'll save those questions for then.

[K1M]

That is achieved primarily by diet, through use of cardio alongside muscle training, by stress response reconditioning, through proper sleep hygiene, active stress response modulation (meditation and changes in lifestyle) and correction of breathing and avoidance of hypoxia and hyperosmolarity, and by judicious use of supplements.

Could you please further delve into proper sleep hygiene and cardio practices, when possible? The others you've pretty much covered for us. :)

Thanks

[trouble]

Yes Bricked, I will do as you ask, not in this thread. I need to lay out the linkages, the cascade as I understand it that brings out the expression of these metabolic shifts from central (mesomorphic) tendencies.

I will lay out why these corrective behaviors are necessary, and how to initiate them. It would be best if I do this in the Mind and Meditation section.


The final pieces of this enormous puzzle fell into their place yesterday evening. I can lay out the entire molecular cascade for chronic stress disorders, from their eariliest initiation to their final combinations and their phenotypic expression of symptoms in the ectomorph, endomorph and for a variety of symptoms that are indicative of extreme shifts in long term regulation - we call this the pathophysiology of stress catalyzed disease.

Through this website, I will begin to lay it out, in simpler laymans terms than I have been doing. This is best for practical application for strength training and longevity discussion.

Meanwhile, I will be working with academics to bring this understanding forward.

We are very much Beyond the Cutting Edge here, make no mistake.

[Hoops]

That is achieved primarily by diet, through use of cardio alongside muscle training, by stress response reconditioning, through proper sleep hygiene, active stress response modulation (meditation and changes in lifestyle) and correction of breathing and avoidance of hypoxia and hyperosmolarity, and by judicious use of supplements.

Could you please further delve into proper sleep hygiene and cardio practices, when possible? The others you've pretty much covered for us. :)

Thanks

lol, I'm going into cardio in my next question for her, but lets get this thread fully expanded first.

[Hoops]

Yes Bricked, I will do as you ask, not in this thread. I need to lay out the linkages, the cascade as I understand it that brings out the expression of these metabolic shifts from central (mesomorphic) tendencies.

I will lay out why these corrective behaviors are necessary, and how to initiate them. It would be best if I do this in the Mind and Meditation section.


The final pieces of this enormous puzzle fell into their place yesterday evening. I can lay out the entire molecular cascade for chronic stress disorders, from their eariliest initiation to their final combinations and their phenotypic expression of symptoms in the ectomorph, endomorph and for a variety of symptoms that are indicative of extreme shifts in long term regulation - we call this the pathophysiology of stress catalyzed disease.

Through this website, I will begin to lay it out, in simpler laymans terms than I have been doing. This is best for practical application for strength training and longevity discussion.

Meanwhile, I will be working with academics to bring this understanding forward.

We are very much Beyond the Cutting Edge here, make no mistake.

Nice, definately intersted in the dumbed down version :)

[Hoops]

OK another equestion for this. How would you know your an over-methylator? Would these be ecto's? Or would that be too general? Would you not be one if you weren't hyper or what? And even then I'm unsure why those people wouldn't want many of those supplements listed there unless I"m missing something here which is more than likely the case.