Article says, "for Advanced, LESS IS MORE".

[cantell]

Just an interesting article I found...I always wondered what you should change as you become more advanced. Some say more frequency, and some say less.


HERE IT IS:




Exercise physiologists have found that your strength increases disproportionately to your recovery ability.


The stronger you get the LESS high intensity exercise you can tolerate. Dr. Ellington Darden has mentioned a "300/50%" ratio of strength to recovery ability potential. Thus - in theory - the average trainee has the potential to increase his untrained strength by a factor of 4, but his recovery ability will only increase by a factor of 1.5. Therefore, as you get stronger you simply MUST do less exercise.


The GENERAL recommendations for number of sets/workout are as follows:


Beginning level: 12-15 sets

Intermediate level: 8-12 sets

Advanced level: 6-8 sets


Of course you may require more or most likely can benefit from LESS, but this is a good general outline.


As for frequency of training general recommendations are as follows:


Beginning level:

3 times/week (full body)

Intermediate:

2 times/5-7 days (full body)

Advanced:

1 time/4-6 days (full body)




Again, depending on many factors you may require LESS than this. Three times/week is being used successfully by high school and college athletic training programs. However, there are cases of trainees who have made great gains by training less frequently. It is emphasized again that these are GENERAL recommendations. There are cases of advanced trainees who can tolerate and adapt to a 3x/week 15 sets/workout regimes. Others can only tolerate 2x/week 4-6 sets/workout.


As the general rule of thumb for aerobic conditioning is training 2-3 times/week, if you are at the intermediate to advanced level perform some form of aerobic exercise one other day/week.


Training three times a week is the general recommendation given for increasing cardiovascular endurance. If your strength training sessions are performed in a manner such that your heart rate is maintained at the target level for your age (by keeping the rest between sets as short as possible; 1-3 minutes is recommended), then your strength training sessions "count" as part of your aerobic conditioning.


If your strength has increased to the level where you are training less than 3 times/week, additional aerobic exercise can be done for conditioning purposes.

[Kongo]

1 time a week, barely even a work out???

[Sand Blaster]

I guess olympic weightlifters have been doing it all wrong....typical HIT propaganda. Reader beware.

SB

[Mudge]

If recruitment and efficiency go up, it makes sense on some level. However, all of the big guys I have personally known are high volume guys.

For me, similar perhaps to Dorian, I simply have a 2-3 progressive warm-up sets and finally one heavy working set. This seems to work well for me. So are we calling this more volume, or lots of warmups? There may be some differing opinions on that one.

[Pale Rider]

I don't think you can set anything in stone the way Darden does, but I'll tell you this. I've been working with Wes, & he's gotten me stronger, at 35 years of age, than I ever have been before. He did this with a volume type routine. But a few weeks ago, I absolutely hit a wall. The poundages had gotten to the point where my CNS could no longer handle all the sets that had gotten me to that point. His answer, & the only logical one at this point, is to make a volume reduction. Then, after talking with Wes, I read the exact same thing from a EFS article written by none other than Dave Tate, where he stated simply that as strength increases, volume must be reduced.

Now, I think Darden is dogmatic as hell. Everything is not black & white as he would like to believe. But I do think their is validity his theory (but not his prescription).

Mudge, I would call that HIT, but regardless, it's what works for you.

[Sand Blaster]

Right, but the reason you gained was the previous volume and the contrast between them. The wrong inference to make is to then say that reduced volume and continue reducing volume is the right direction.

Poliquin and others would say that overall volume needs to increase in many cases as strength increases. Think about WSB guys, there is no significant reduction in volume as they get stronger. Metal Militia guys something very similar. You still need a certain amount of volume matched with intensity, and ultimately waving them both is what is needed.

SB

[iron addict]

But then we have to explain something like DC training. It works, lots of guys literally do it for years, and the only increase in poundage's as the volume is set.

The best overall volume/frequency is westside for the "average" lifter IMO. But that's likely just my bias after so much success with that level of workload with so many clients. It's not too much, nor too little--my .02

Wesley

[robbhensel]

But then we have to explain something like DC training. It works, lots of guys literally do it for years, and the only increase in poundage's as the volume is set.

The best overall volume/frequency is westside for the "average" lifter IMO. But that's likely just my bias after so much success with that level of workload with so many clients. It's not too much, nor too little--my .02

Wesley

Isn't that where volume and intensification periods have their place? We discussed DC on the phone also I think. I used it for a long time and made great gains. Like everything else people are different and respond to certain types of stimulus. A big part of it is listening to people such as IA who know how to program.

[iron addict]

Dante uses the simplest of deloading methods possible and it works just fine. That he calls them blast and cruise is irrelevant. They are just loading and unloading. But yes, the answer truly is different things work for different people. I have advanced guys that need their daily workload different every week, and other guys that do the same thing week in week out and that is how they progress best.

Some lifters truly end up with a lot more work capacity as they advance, and for others, as the weights become extremely heavy, they are forced to do less to recover.

The answer once again is--it depends:D

Wesley

[robbhensel]

Dante uses the simplest of deloading methods possible and it works just fine. That he calls them blast and cruise is irrelevant. They are just loading and unloading. But yes, the answer truly is different things work for different people. I have advanced guys that need their daily workload different every week, and other guys that do the same thing week in week out and that is how they progress best.

Some lifters truly end up with a lot more work capacity as they advance, and for others, as the weights become extremely heavy, they are forced to do less to recover.

The answer once again is--it depends:D

Wesley


That is something that I have noticed recently as my weights have gotten increasingly heavier. Once I am done with my big lift I have barely enough energy for assistance work. Some has to do with GPP which I am working on and some has to do with my recovery ability so I had to back down my assistance and work it back up gradually even if it meant only adding a set or two. The important thing is progression which is continuing.

[grit]

I may be way off base here but some points I wanted to make:

1. Olympic lifters train at high %s and with high frequency. This is well known, but olympic lifts aren't very eccentric-dominated movements. This could play a role... I'm sure guys can't squat 90%+ with high frequency for weeks on end. Also, olympic lifts are highly technical lifts and frequent repetition may be necessary for the lifter... also I'm also pretty sure that these oly guys aren't doing sets of 10, 15, 20 for cleans. It's usually heavy singles, doubles, triples (if that).

2. There is a clear difference between beginners and advanced guys when it comes to training. Muscle/CNS recruitment may play a large role and of course the sheer poundages used... clearly training programs need to be adjusted to address that. However, to go about quantifying it wouldn't seem to be that helpful... "It depends" is the likely the most correct response when it comes to situations like this... addressing this type of question...

3. The way I kind of think of it is always through the concept of supercompensation... You present a novel stimulus...the body supercompensates.

The difference in beginners vs. advanced guys is that in beginners, this "supercompensation" can occur between workouts or weeks of workouts. In advanced guys, you may need weeks to present a novel stimulus (loading) and you may need weeks to recover/supercompensate (deloading).

Physiologically, this is probably not what happens as the beginner still breaks down muscle tissue and their ability to recover is not necessarily "better" than the advanced guys... but I think their potential to improve their muscle recruitment/CNS is much higher which may account for rapid "beginner gains" / fast supercompensation.

Just some ponderings... not necessarily true or anything... kind of just wanted to make the point that it'll always DEPEND though there is a general TREND and certainly nothing really QUANTIFIABLE or worth being quantified at least...

Advanced programming gets hairy...

[Mudge]

The answer once again is--it depends:D

One of my favorite 'statements,' whats tough for all of us is we are all different. Diets, daily routines, how we lift in the gym, and what actually works - its different. Life is dynamic, you don't always plug in A and get C out the other side.

[Shawn Bellon]

I started my cruise yesterday while doing Warrior diet for the next week or two. Then back to 3-4 day a week training.

[Sand Blaster]

Just remember that Darden's claim was about frequency and thus the pointing out of Olympic weightlifters. Darden is talking about doing 4-6 total sets, ONCE per week for an advanced trainee, regardless of the eccentric/concentric chain.

Look at his overall volume prescription and you'll see that most if not all weightlifters likely take care of that in their FIRST session of the FIRST day, of their week of training.

I am well aware of how olympic weightlifters train and if you think that training ONCE per week like Darden is advocating is ANYTHING like the workload put in by oly weightlifters, regardless of the eccentric work, you need to rethink that. Granted they are two different styles of training, but his general thesis is false for the vast majority of trainees.

SB

I may be way off base here but some points I wanted to make:

1. Olympic lifters train at high %s and with high frequency. This is well known, but olympic lifts aren't very eccentric-dominated movements. This could play a role... I'm sure guys can't squat 90%+ with high frequency for weeks on end. Also, olympic lifts are highly technical lifts and frequent repetition may be necessary for the lifter... also I'm also pretty sure that these oly guys aren't doing sets of 10, 15, 20 for cleans. It's usually heavy singles, doubles, triples (if that).

Advanced programming gets hairy...