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Doenitz79
06-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Finally, a 3 figure weighted pullup(101lb or 46kg which is 0.5 BW-four 10kg plates+two 3kg chains) Total absolute weight=92-93kg BW+46kg=138-9kg(304-6lb)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhrhrYqgewA

Andrew.Cook
06-09-2008, 02:45 PM
Good job! Man, from experience I know that isn't easy.

Hey, I happened to check some of your other vids out while I was on youtube... if you are game, I have some suggestions for your log clean and press. I see a couple areas where I think you are probably losing a good 5-10 kilos just because of form issues.

offroad
06-09-2008, 03:14 PM
That's impressive. Very nicely done. I can barely haul my fat butt up for a few reps.

Doenitz79
06-09-2008, 08:23 PM
Good job! Man, from experience I know that isn't easy.

Hey, I happened to check some of your other vids out while I was on youtube... if you are game, I have some suggestions for your log clean and press. I see a couple areas where I think you are probably losing a good 5-10 kilos just because of form issues.

Thanks Andrew for answering my queries so far.

As for my log press form issues,are they as follows:

Elbows not high enough?
Clean by rolling up my torso instead of performing an explosive clean?
Insufficient leg drive?

Andrew.Cook
06-10-2008, 11:43 AM
Actually, the clean should not look like an olympic clean. The bar is too far away from the body and because of wrist placement you can not spin the bar the same way. So... no, that isn't it :)

Elbows should be pointing at about a 45 degree angle. If you are trying to roll your elbows higher than that you are not going to have any push in your press. Once again, because of the log, your start position is closer to an incline bench, not a military press. Because of this position it becomes very difficult to breathe as you are engaging your core in order to support this weight. In a normal barbell clean it really isn't hard to breathe since you can get the bar pretty close to center of gravity and stack joints so there is minimal need for muscular support.

Anyway, it isn't an olympic lift.

Actually, in the videos I watched it looked like you were not rolling the log up, it looked like it was coming out and away from the body. You actually want to roll the log. From the floor you want to get the bar into a lap position, pulling the centerof the log between the top of your belly and the bottom of your chest. The weight will sit on your thighs, lean over the weight and pull into your body hard. Cleaning from this position seems to be the most efficient as it is the shortest distance to roll and with a little bit of practice you can learn to distend your belly under the log to provide a solid point for the log to rest on. This is important as it is hard to transfer momentum if the weight isn't on a solid resting point. Just like trying to jerk a bar without it resting on your shoulders, there is no transfer of momentum and the leg drive is actually absorbed by the shoulders. In the log, you will find that your hip drive (the momentum you should use to roll the bar) is lost in the arms/biceps without this shelf.

So locked into that groove, you stand, snapping the hips forward quickly to generate the momentum to allow the log to roll up your chest into the catch. The only function the arms serve is to keep the bar locked close against your body so that it will st in the groove and have traction to roll up the body. If you stand and the bar sags down on the hips, you are losing momentum in the biceps not being strong enough to hold tight. This is the PERFECT reason why strongmen should have direct arm work. In fact, some concentration on isometric holds would be ideal for this reason.

On your press out:

You could add some weight simply by learning to rebend under the log. You drive and stop. When I get tired get into the same habit. The mind just thinks "push with the legs and get that log up!" but the push, and press is actually shorter if you can dip back under the bar to catch. I'm not talking about a full on olympic catch, but maybe a good 6-12" I've found that the difference between a good dip under the bar and just trying to lock out could be as much as 10-20lbs for me. Also, you are burning a lot of energy by not bringing your head through after the log clears your face. If your head is back you are using a lot of muscle to remain stable. By driving your head forward and under the bar you are stacking the joints and providing a much more comfortable and stable platform for the catch. In fact, I would suggest taking a couple good breaths at this point and when you repeat the motion, learn how to combine your catch/dip for leg drive so that when the bar comes down to your chest you are loading up your legs for the next leg drive. Less time on the chest is best!

Hope that makes sense.

Doenitz79
06-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Thanks Andrew Cook for sharing your precious time to type out such a long and useful write up.

Ya,I am learning to roll the log up my tummy.And I am focusing on strict pressing at the moment(my country's strongman contest doesnt have a log press event anyway)

Any things to bear in mind for strict pressing?

Will post a vid soon for you to analyze.

Once again thanks.

Doenitz79
06-11-2008, 09:53 AM
Ok Andrew,here is my video. 1RM around 80kg(176lb) strict pressing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRp3vSdGrtw

Thank you in advance!

Andrew.Cook
06-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Actually, that clean looks good from where I sit. The only thing I could think of that might be out of whack is it doesn't look like the log is staying on top of your stomach, but frankly the whole movement looked nice and clean, so I'm not sure that it mattered. I'm guessing that since this is a weight you can strict press the clean isn't all that difficult for you. I find that I can typically clean a bit more than I can press, maybe by ten percent.

As for log press training, I've been playing around with it for a while and here is what I've come up with (this is only my log training plan, not everything else that I do):

Week 1:
Tuesday I clean and jerk, olympic bar 7 sets up to a max single.

Saturday I do 3-4 warmup sets and then hit a single set as if I were in a contest. This is usually a max press in 2 minutes event. Most contests allow for one clean and multiple presses. Contest weights for a lightweight tend t be in the 175-205lb range. 200lbs being the top weight for most lightweight competitors.

Week 2:

Tuesday I do 5 sets of log cleans up to a max for the month. This max clean weight is used to determine working weights for follow on work.

After setting the max clean I do 3 sets of clean and presses (one clean, three presses).

Saturday: Contest work again, though this week we will work up to a max single.

Week 3:

Tuesday: Axle clean and press using a continental clean. This is 75% of my max clean and jerk. This is done for max reps of full cleans and jerks in a two minute time span.

Saturday: Back to log pressing. Same as week one, contest weight for max presses in a two minute period.

Week 4:

Tuesday: Log clean and strict press (4x2) (full clean each rep, 60% max clean)

Log clean and jerk (3x1) to a max rep.

Saturday: Log full clean and press for reps in 90 seconds.

This changes some Saturday to Saturday, but through the week I alternate bar work and log work. Some of my time with the log is always focused on technical components like the clean or strict pressing, and the rest is spent "practicing like you play" with a focus on completing reps, not worrying about picture perfect form. Because competition conditions change like the wind (the competition that is coming up on Saturday, that I will not be competing in has two logs, a 12" and a 8" set ten feet apart. The event is to clean and press the heavier log, 8", then set it down, run to the 12" log and clean and press it, set it down and back to the 8" log and so on for 2 minutes. Pretty rough event. In my practice run I managed 5 reps, 3 heavy and 2 light. The full clean and press is very tiring compared to pressing for reps, and the running back and forth and switching up implements is a pain too. Fun, but very difficult. I'll be curious to see how the competitors fair. A lot of my training partners are competing, I have had a crazy schedule lately and could not adequately train for this contest. I'm kinda bummed because they have fingal fingers!

Doenitz79
06-11-2008, 11:45 AM
For me,nowadays,I do log overheads twice a week.One day heavy for 5 x 3. The other day light for 4 x 6. (I cant do barbell pushing movements coz of a bad wrist and the neutral grip of the log is a godsend) So far so good.

By the way regarding the clean,I think I'm still a bit too "explosive".

Compare my clean to this guy's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhOUioCuFU

He is really rolling the log up slowly and steadily while I still explode the log up somewhat.

Andrew.Cook
06-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Well, I think that slowness is a function of weight. Trust me, he is TRYING to get that weight up as fast as possible. But at 370lbs, it is pretty resistant to going anywhere in a hurry :)

Actually that is a great video. I've seen it before and it demonstrates all the points I was trying to make very well. Pull the log tight to the top of the stomach, stand and let the log ride the shelf made by the gut, let the log roll from momentum, stand tall, short knee bend, crisp leg drive and lock out with head between arms.

This is more my style of pressing. I suppose that I find this easier, but I noticed that lots of strongmen stick to a strict press. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeEBJrwYItY

I don't usually split finish, but I do train this way sometimes. I do all of my barbell jerks in a split fashion.

No matter what, the head ALWAYS has to come forward between the arms at the finish. Strict press or jerk, it doesn't matter. If you stay leaned back you are sapping energy and breath.

Doenitz79
06-13-2008, 08:41 AM
Barely got my chin over the bar with 48kg(106lb)

I swear I will hit a better rep next time,watch this space!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK233ahoWe0

Andrew.Cook
06-13-2008, 03:30 PM
Nice work! You look like you use less momentum than I do. Not that I'm just swining away, but I do begin every pull with a little rock to get the body moving. Of course, chain suspended weight is pretty resistant to swining with you... at first :)

I just hit 100 for 2 1/3 reps Wednesday. I've been trying to work in the three rep range for my pullups on strength days. Not sure if it matters greatly, I just feel like there is some advantage to being able to replicate strength under depleating energy in this movement.

Doenitz79
06-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Hi Andrew,

Regarding the log press,should I have the handles angled towards my body and when I press turn them flat?

Like these vids


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86uCOcabV_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHr43auS4Ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wBdtPouNk

Andrew.Cook
06-17-2008, 11:36 AM
I think that once it is on your chest it is probably a matter of luck/preference where it ends up. I know that the guys I train with practice lapping the log so that the handles are faced up as much as possible (cutouts up with your wrist torqued over so that when you clean the bar rolls and your wrists come around into a more natural alignment. If you don't do this, then your wrists can end up too cocked over at the top. It kinda depends how much rolling you have to do from lap to chest and other factors. The bigger the guy, the more you have to get the log turned up on the lap. I don't worry about it as my natural lap position and clean all seem to work just fine for me. I never give it much thought, though I know the rest of my group (bigger guys) tend to put some thought into that lap position before the clean.

Those vids are awesome! I just ordered an Olympic lifting set from WFW club http://store.wfwclub.com/weightsets.html Got the economy set and intend to do more olympic movements over the summer in the hopes that this will really help with my pressing speed. So I'm cutting my log work back to Saturdays only for a while. We will see how it goes. I know that my log press was better when I was more focused on Oly work in the past, so I'm going to try to replicate that again in my training.

Doenitz79
06-18-2008, 01:35 AM
Is this good push jerk technique?

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/...5/push-jerk.wmv

One thing I notice is that big log pressers don't jump with over 300lb over their heads...;)

Andrew.Cook
06-19-2008, 11:54 AM
I can't get the link to open... but knowing what I do of crossfit, I'm guessing that the form is a little sloppy, but basically correct. Everything I watch on crossfit seems a little rushed and a little sloppy due to being flat tired. Nothing wrong with that! I'm sure that it is fine.

I've noticed the big guys use leg drive, but not a lot of dipping under the bar. The only one that I would imagine used this technique might have been Jesse Marunde, and only because he had a very solid olympic lifting background. You can see it here at about 2 min. No idea how much weight that is, but he uses a very efficient style to get it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-YuI1bYmdI

I think that a lot of the technique issue is where you come from. Some people are just brute strong and can lock out a 300lb press with no leg drive. I, however, need to use as many tricks as I can to hit my reps or max. Since there is no rule on form in most contests, I choose to take advantage of my speed and power, and not really rely on my brute strength... of which there is only a moderate amount.

Doenitz79
06-20-2008, 07:56 AM
Ya,I realised most of the >300lb log pressers don't use as much leg drive as you would expect them to except for Jesse.

By the way,I have watched that crossfit vid link I posted. The gist of it is "dip,jump,land and stand",ya something on those lines.

And the people demonstrating this technique actually got their feet off the ground for a split second and stomped the ground.That's why I asked have you seen any 300lb log presser's feet leave the floor? I certainly have not.

BUT

I just found this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzoJ1DP3snI&feature=PlayList&p=DD7299EADA60EC81&index=13

The guy's feet actually left the floor for a split second. This best exemplifies the "dip,jump,land and stand" technique.

Andrew.Cook
06-20-2008, 10:54 AM
I don't jump like that, but I do dip under the bar the same way.

Again, I really think that the difference in style is all about where you came from. Those guys with a good foundation in Olympic lifting will be at an advantage, even if they are big and strong, like Jesse Marunde.

Andrew.Cook
06-24-2008, 12:00 PM
Since we were talking about big guys and strict pressing. I think it is worth noting that the unofficial US record holder in log press uses a pretty sharp looking parallel jerk to move the weight. Check out 432lbs in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXdsRHiqw54&feature=related

He obviously has some olympic lifting background. Check out this snatch. 340 isn't going to break any world records, but it is damn impressive none-the-less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3qo9hJsUcU&feature=related

Doenitz79
07-04-2008, 12:09 AM
Damm,I can barely do 1 x 40kg now..