learning the hard way

[MrTrap]

IA has been kind enough to provide us with all sorts of articles and this forum. Pretty nice forum too as you guys talk about lifting. I thought I'd try to make a contribution here and tell some personal history. I was never anything special as a lifter and the stories aren't that unique, but maybe it will amuse some of you guys to see how an average guy bangs his head against walls for decades. Maybe we can get some good discussion going. If I bore you, just tell me to shut up.

Anyway, when I started lifting back in the 70s, my buddies and me started lifting like so many do - arms, chest, shoulders, a little back. Of course we pretty much got nothing for our efforts, despite swilling down the shakes that were basically clumped chalk. We got lucky though when we joined a gym. There were some guys there that were like giants to us that told us that we should try powerlifting, and taught us to do squats, deadlifts, and to lower the bench press to our chest all the way without bouncing it. As I recall they got us to do all three powerlifts the same day, plus situps, then as they put it "go do what you want." Of course we were wiped out and managed to do curls (gotta!) and drag ourselves home. Man did we get sore. We were just dumb enough to think "those guys are pretty big, they must know what they are doing" and keep going back. Well they did. We actually started to gain weight. I remember being so hungry, it drove my mom crazy.

Eventually they decided we were going to stick with it and got more serious with it. They didn't make us go heavy every time, and we dropped the deadlift back to once per week, squat to twice. They taught us to do close grip bench presses and made us do a few pullups. I can still remember them laughing at us, saying "you guys are so skinny, you should be able to do lots of these."

Well that's enough for now, but if you guys like it I'll write more later.

Traps

[MrTrap]

IA has been kind enough to provide us with all sorts of articles and this forum. Pretty nice forum too as you guys talk about lifting. I thought I'd try to make a contribution here and tell some personal history. I was never anything special as a lifter and the stories aren't that unique, but maybe it will amuse some of you guys to see how an average guy bangs his head against walls for decades. Maybe we can get some good discussion going. If I bore you, just tell me to shut up.

Anyway, when I started lifting back in the 70s, my buddies and me started lifting like so many do - arms, chest, shoulders, a little back. Of course we pretty much got nothing for our efforts, despite swilling down the shakes that were basically clumped chalk. We got lucky though when we joined a gym. There were some guys there that were like giants to us that told us that we should try powerlifting, and taught us to do squats, deadlifts, and to lower the bench press to our chest all the way without bouncing it. As I recall they got us to do all three powerlifts the same day, plus situps, then as they put it "go do what you want." Of course we were wiped out and managed to do curls (gotta!) and drag ourselves home. Man did we get sore. We were just dumb enough to think "those guys are pretty big, they must know what they are doing" and keep going back. Well they did. We actually started to gain weight. I remember being so hungry, it drove my mom crazy.

Eventually they decided we were going to stick with it and got more serious with it. They didn't make us go heavy every time, and we dropped the deadlift back to once per week, squat to twice. They taught us to do close grip bench presses and made us do a few pullups. I can still remember them laughing at us, saying "you guys are so skinny, you should be able to do lots of these."

Well that's enough for now, but if you guys like it I'll write more later.

Traps

[iron addict]

Keep the story going!

Iron Addict

[iron addict]

Keep the story going!

Iron Addict

[MrTrap]

Thanks IA. I know you'll pick up in my story all kinds of stuff you've been writing about. But if I did anything right when younger it was by accident.

We'd been lifting under these guy's supervision for a while when we entered a PL comp. I can't recall if we got it in our heads that we were badass or if they egged us into it. Probably a bit of both. They later admitted that they'd told us to get into powerlifting just to be funny and we're surprised when we went with it. Anyway we entered this contest and we all placed. Mostly because there weren't many others in our classes. Otherwise we got a big slice of humble pie. On the bright side, none of us bombed, because we'd started squatting and so on right because of this supervision. Despite losing, we had a blast. We were all a bit overwhelmed by how big everybody was, and how nice they were to us. We all became gung-ho to be like that too. We went right back and started training for the next meet, even if we had no clue when it was. Luckily the guys who got us into this made us back off and cycle up.

Even though getting into powerlifting was by one joke after another, it probably worked in our favor. We started doing squats and deadlifts early on, and according to rules, so we gained weight. It was obvious we were growing more than other guys at school who did other kinds of workouts. We ended up with powerlifters for role models, so we fixated on using more and more weight. And though the lesson didn't fully sink in for a while, we cycled our weights.

Traps

[MrTrap]

Thanks IA. I know you'll pick up in my story all kinds of stuff you've been writing about. But if I did anything right when younger it was by accident.

We'd been lifting under these guy's supervision for a while when we entered a PL comp. I can't recall if we got it in our heads that we were badass or if they egged us into it. Probably a bit of both. They later admitted that they'd told us to get into powerlifting just to be funny and we're surprised when we went with it. Anyway we entered this contest and we all placed. Mostly because there weren't many others in our classes. Otherwise we got a big slice of humble pie. On the bright side, none of us bombed, because we'd started squatting and so on right because of this supervision. Despite losing, we had a blast. We were all a bit overwhelmed by how big everybody was, and how nice they were to us. We all became gung-ho to be like that too. We went right back and started training for the next meet, even if we had no clue when it was. Luckily the guys who got us into this made us back off and cycle up.

Even though getting into powerlifting was by one joke after another, it probably worked in our favor. We started doing squats and deadlifts early on, and according to rules, so we gained weight. It was obvious we were growing more than other guys at school who did other kinds of workouts. We ended up with powerlifters for role models, so we fixated on using more and more weight. And though the lesson didn't fully sink in for a while, we cycled our weights.

Traps

[iron addict]

Tell us more, tell us more (using my best 6 year olds getting a bedtime story read to them!!)

Iron Addict

[iron addict]

Tell us more, tell us more (using my best 6 year olds getting a bedtime story read to them!!)

Iron Addict

[MrTrap]

As you might have guessed, getting fixated on moving big squat, deadlift, and bench poundages kept me from getting fixated on which combination of exercises was ideal to train arms. At that time in powerlifting, there just wasn't a lot of arm training done. We did the powerlifts, we did pullups and ab work, we did some close grip benching, some overheads with DBs, and some did bent over rows or shrugs. We tried to do the arm work for a bit, but it just went nowhere so we pretty much gave up.

As my buddies and me got stronger, we started finding out that we didn't all respond equally. Both of them could do close grip presses after benching. What I found was that I could only do them if I dropped the weight way down, and even then I didn't make much progress. So I pretty much stuck to doing them a separate day and didn't do bench that other day. But I was better than them at doing pulling stuff after deadlifts.

With the close grips, if I did them 3-4 days after benching, I made progress on both. If I put them together on the same day, my progress slowed up. Later on I tried adding a couple sets of DB work on bench day, and almost right away my progress slowed on bench.

I could do squats and deads heavy in the same week without problem. When it got near to a competition, the older guys made us do the three lifts on the same day again, just like when we started with them. We could never do as many reps on the deadlift, but we could still get in maybe a 3 with what had been a weight we could use for 5.

After a couple years it was obvious to to us that we were not going to be champions. But we had fun and we were thicker and stockier than guys we knew who tried to lift for appearance. After we moved our seaparate ways, we all kept doing it for a while. One of the guys disappeared and we never heard from him again. I recently heard from the other guy and he doesn't lift hard any more. Family and work and he just got interested in other things. I kept lifting though, got addicted.

Traps

[MrTrap]

As you might have guessed, getting fixated on moving big squat, deadlift, and bench poundages kept me from getting fixated on which combination of exercises was ideal to train arms. At that time in powerlifting, there just wasn't a lot of arm training done. We did the powerlifts, we did pullups and ab work, we did some close grip benching, some overheads with DBs, and some did bent over rows or shrugs. We tried to do the arm work for a bit, but it just went nowhere so we pretty much gave up.

As my buddies and me got stronger, we started finding out that we didn't all respond equally. Both of them could do close grip presses after benching. What I found was that I could only do them if I dropped the weight way down, and even then I didn't make much progress. So I pretty much stuck to doing them a separate day and didn't do bench that other day. But I was better than them at doing pulling stuff after deadlifts.

With the close grips, if I did them 3-4 days after benching, I made progress on both. If I put them together on the same day, my progress slowed up. Later on I tried adding a couple sets of DB work on bench day, and almost right away my progress slowed on bench.

I could do squats and deads heavy in the same week without problem. When it got near to a competition, the older guys made us do the three lifts on the same day again, just like when we started with them. We could never do as many reps on the deadlift, but we could still get in maybe a 3 with what had been a weight we could use for 5.

After a couple years it was obvious to to us that we were not going to be champions. But we had fun and we were thicker and stockier than guys we knew who tried to lift for appearance. After we moved our seaparate ways, we all kept doing it for a while. One of the guys disappeared and we never heard from him again. I recently heard from the other guy and he doesn't lift hard any more. Family and work and he just got interested in other things. I kept lifting though, got addicted.

Traps

[iron addict]

OK, keep it coming!

Iron Addict

[iron addict]

OK, keep it coming!

Iron Addict

[MrTrap]

I wasn't as focussed in my training after we all moved apart, but got it back together. Other stuff in life made it hard for me to enter many comps, but I still managed to do one every now and then. I could tell I wasn't going to be great but I kept chasing bigger lifts.

After a bit I fell in with another bunch, and moved to a 4 day a week lifting. Monday squats and abs. Tuesday bench and hammer curls. Thursday deadlifts with pullups or shrugs or rows. Friday close grips or dips and some overheads. None of the workouts seemed bad, but those last few weeks of a cycle were a drag. Seemed like I was just going through the motions.

Over time my body broke down a little. Just more and more niggling stuff. Elbows and shoulders mostly. I don't know how much of it was simply getting older and all the little shit that happens in life. But since I wasn't competing anymore, I quit trying to follow the powerlifting program. Three days a week was enough and left me more time for a social life.

One thing I quit doing was cycling my reps. I used to do 12 week cycles of 12s, 8s, 5s, 3s. Being a hard head I decided that since I wasn't competing, I didn't need to go through all that, and I pretty much stuck to 5s, which I liked. I'm still stuck on 5s a bit, despite IA's telling me a couple times to go with higher reps.

Traps

[MrTrap]

I wasn't as focussed in my training after we all moved apart, but got it back together. Other stuff in life made it hard for me to enter many comps, but I still managed to do one every now and then. I could tell I wasn't going to be great but I kept chasing bigger lifts.

After a bit I fell in with another bunch, and moved to a 4 day a week lifting. Monday squats and abs. Tuesday bench and hammer curls. Thursday deadlifts with pullups or shrugs or rows. Friday close grips or dips and some overheads. None of the workouts seemed bad, but those last few weeks of a cycle were a drag. Seemed like I was just going through the motions.

Over time my body broke down a little. Just more and more niggling stuff. Elbows and shoulders mostly. I don't know how much of it was simply getting older and all the little shit that happens in life. But since I wasn't competing anymore, I quit trying to follow the powerlifting program. Three days a week was enough and left me more time for a social life.

One thing I quit doing was cycling my reps. I used to do 12 week cycles of 12s, 8s, 5s, 3s. Being a hard head I decided that since I wasn't competing, I didn't need to go through all that, and I pretty much stuck to 5s, which I liked. I'm still stuck on 5s a bit, despite IA's telling me a couple times to go with higher reps.

Traps

[DieTrying]

Nice story bro! I must say that you are one of the lucky ones...I don't really know anybody that has had somebody taken under another's wing and taught correct routines for growth. I see a lot of regulars in my gym bring their friends in and off they go...straight to the preacher curl for 4 sets, then 4 hammers, then 4 dumbell curls, then 4 sets of bench, 4 sets pec dec, and then maybe some light ab work.

I don't want to think about what routine I'd be doing now had I not gotten on with IA.

[DieTrying]

Nice story bro! I must say that you are one of the lucky ones...I don't really know anybody that has had somebody taken under another's wing and taught correct routines for growth. I see a lot of regulars in my gym bring their friends in and off they go...straight to the preacher curl for 4 sets, then 4 hammers, then 4 dumbell curls, then 4 sets of bench, 4 sets pec dec, and then maybe some light ab work.

I don't want to think about what routine I'd be doing now had I not gotten on with IA.

[MrTrap]

Nice story bro! I must say that you are one of the lucky ones...I don't really know anybody that has had somebody taken under another's wing and taught correct routines for growth. I see a lot of regulars in my gym bring their friends in and off they go...straight to the preacher curl for 4 sets, then 4 hammers, then 4 dumbell curls, then 4 sets of bench, 4 sets pec dec, and then maybe some light ab work.

I don't want to think about what routine I'd be doing now had I not gotten on with IA.

DT, you're right. I have no doubt I'd have done a program like you describe if these guys didn't get me into powerlifting. Just pure luck.

Anyway as life went on my programs didn't vary that much. I still liked the powerlifts and the big assistance lifts so I kept doing them. A couple of sets of 5 for each of them, once per week for each lift. I tried arranging them different ways, but it didn't make a lot of difference. I enjoyed the lifting but I can't say I was making any real progress.

A few years ago I decided I should try to go more of a bodybuilding workout. Not interested in competing, but I figured it couldn't hurt to look a little better and it might be easier on my joints. I had some problems with making the change. I'm still stuck on the same lifts and on 5s. Now I think the lifts are OK, maybe not ideal but good enough. IAs told me a couple times to try the higher reps, and I'm still struggling with making the change. Just too many years of doing the lower reps. I go to the higher reps and it sucks. I tried IA's 5 x 5 from his volume article (adjusted a bit) and liked that pretty well. I did get some growth, but man did it disappear fast when I had to travel on business.

So that's my story. Nothing exciting, but maybe somebody got something out of it.

I think the stuff IA (and exmgq) are telling us about it pretty much right. If you do the big lifts and do them over the long haul, you can do OK. As you get older and get more other demands on your time, just getting that in is pretty good.

Traps

[MrTrap]

Nice story bro! I must say that you are one of the lucky ones...I don't really know anybody that has had somebody taken under another's wing and taught correct routines for growth. I see a lot of regulars in my gym bring their friends in and off they go...straight to the preacher curl for 4 sets, then 4 hammers, then 4 dumbell curls, then 4 sets of bench, 4 sets pec dec, and then maybe some light ab work.

I don't want to think about what routine I'd be doing now had I not gotten on with IA.

DT, you're right. I have no doubt I'd have done a program like you describe if these guys didn't get me into powerlifting. Just pure luck.

Anyway as life went on my programs didn't vary that much. I still liked the powerlifts and the big assistance lifts so I kept doing them. A couple of sets of 5 for each of them, once per week for each lift. I tried arranging them different ways, but it didn't make a lot of difference. I enjoyed the lifting but I can't say I was making any real progress.

A few years ago I decided I should try to go more of a bodybuilding workout. Not interested in competing, but I figured it couldn't hurt to look a little better and it might be easier on my joints. I had some problems with making the change. I'm still stuck on the same lifts and on 5s. Now I think the lifts are OK, maybe not ideal but good enough. IAs told me a couple times to try the higher reps, and I'm still struggling with making the change. Just too many years of doing the lower reps. I go to the higher reps and it sucks. I tried IA's 5 x 5 from his volume article (adjusted a bit) and liked that pretty well. I did get some growth, but man did it disappear fast when I had to travel on business.

So that's my story. Nothing exciting, but maybe somebody got something out of it.

I think the stuff IA (and exmgq) are telling us about it pretty much right. If you do the big lifts and do them over the long haul, you can do OK. As you get older and get more other demands on your time, just getting that in is pretty good.

Traps