#'s

[ghostfacekilla]

what do intermediate type numbers look like?

400 squat
400 dead
300 bench?

and then hows intermediate training gonna be different than beginner and advanced training?

[Hida]

Minimum Intermediate
Bench = 225
Squat = 315
Deadlift = 365

Usually, 3-4-5 determines if you are considered advanced. That's 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 dl. So anything below that would be intermediate im assuming. I could be wrong though...

[dbag333]

I'll consider myself advanced when any one curling even near the squat rack, stops, strips the 10lb plates on either side, and puts it back up on the hooks, as soon as I walk on to the floor.


to me, "Advanced," is like being called an "artist," it only works when some one else calls you by that name. And really, only if they are better then you.


I am close to the 3,4,5 but I'll feel better once I get 4,5,6.

[iron addict]

I'll answer this question with some loopholes somettime this week.

IA

[K1M]

I'm currently:

~440 dead
~375 squat
~240 bench

and I'd consider myself smack bang in intermediate territory.

edit: 400 bench, 500 squat and 600 dead is well and truly advanced and beyond imho... not many peeps ever get that strong

[iron addict]

I'm currently:

~440 dead
~375 squat
~240 bench

and I'd consider myself smack bang in intermediate territory.

edit: 400 bench, 500 squat and 600 dead is well and truly advanced and beyond imho... not many peeps ever get that strong

Yes, that is solid intermediate territory:D

IA

[K1M]

Thanks, Wes, and I'm aiming high too.

Goals for end of 2007 is a 500 dead, 440 squat and MAYBE a 300 bench.

Amazing that I started this year with you at 330 dead, 315 squat and 200 bench :D

(Read as: HIRE IA IF YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE YOUR PROGRESS!)

[Pale Rider]

Wouldn't this also vary depending on body weight?

[maverickbu]

I'm currently:

~440 dead
~375 squat
~240 bench

and I'd consider myself smack bang in intermediate territory.

edit: 400 bench, 500 squat and 600 dead is well and truly advanced and beyond imho... not many peeps ever get that strong

Wow, almost identical to me:

445 dead (a while ago)
370 squat (as of last week)
255 bench

[Angel of Death]

mark rippetoe has outlined Intermediate trainees as those that can plan their linear progression on a week to week basis.

in short:
novice/beginner: adds weight the bar every workout session
intermediate: adds weight to the bar every week
advanced: adds weight to the bar every month

this is only for the big 3 and the planned progression on that

having said that, i dont think its right to have a cut-off for any level based on the load because some people arent built to do 400 lbs squats, etc. and being an intermeidate it the trainee being an intermediate in respcet to himself/herself - not to the rest of the whole population. imagine what would happen if andy bolton considered himself intermediate - we would all become novices by default then! :p

:D

peace

[Richard85]

mark rippetoe has outlined Intermediate trainees as those that can plan their linear progression on a week to week basis.

in short:
novice/beginner: adds weight the bar every workout session
intermediate: adds weight to the bar every week
advanced: adds weight to the bar every month

this is only for the big 3 and the planned progression on that

having said that, i dont think its right to have a cut-off for any level based on the load because some people arent built to do 400 lbs squats, etc. and being an intermeidate it the trainee being an intermediate in respcet to himself/herself - not to the rest of the whole population. imagine what would happen if andy bolton considered himself intermediate - we would all become novices by default then! :p

:D

peace

I think you should marry Mark Rippetoe

[Angel of Death]

I think you should marry Mark Rippetoe
hey kid, the only reason i said that was coz IA has said PP was a good book.......

ps: should i say u should marry IA coz ur on his forums? (ps: u used the bill starr program too so u shouldnt throw stones when u urself are sitting in a glass house ;))

:D

[Richard85]

hey kid, the only reason i said that was coz IA has said PP was a good book.......

ps: should i say u should marry IA coz ur on his forums? (ps: u used the bill starr program too so u shouldnt throw stones when u urself are sitting in a glass house ;))

:D

im screwing around with you bro :jump:

even IA told me he wished most of his trainees had started with MRs programs that way they would be better conditioned

[Angel of Death]

im screwing around with you bro :jump:

even IA told me he wished most of his trainees had started with MRs programs that way they would be better conditioned
there u go. now u can say i said the same thing as IA.

[Angel of Death]

im screwing around with you bro :jump:

even IA told me he wished most of his trainees had started with MRs programs that way they would be better conditioned
i know ur screwing with me dude :) i was kidding too :D

[Grassroots]

Wouldn't this also vary depending on body weight?

I got to thinking about this while slugging along on the treadmill, and I realized that I just deadlifted alittle over 2x my bodyweight for reps. Although it was less than some of the guys at my gym, I only weigh 206 and many of them are in 260-270 range.. so I think that it DOES depend on bodyweight.. especially if you are competing and not wanting to get bigger. Makes BigByrds squat even more impressive, fucking 5x his bodyweight.... can't imagine.

[ghostfacekilla]

doesnt being bigger make squatting harder because your squatting 80% of your own weight too?

[synthetickiller]

I'm not entirely sure what to call Intermediate or Advanced.

I normally think of it as both the time put in and how much you lift.

Minimum Intermediate:
Bench = 225
Squat = 315
Deadlift = 365

Minimum Advanced:
Bench = 300
Squat = 450
Deadlift = 450

This is interesting. I guess I set my standards high or too high.

I wouldn't say the minimum intermediate is intermediate if you're 123 or 132 lbs. Those would be some decent numbers. For a 181er like me, i'd consider 600-400-600 a good total. I'm not at that point yet.

Some things to consider are:

amount of gear: raw, single ply, unlimited

Body weight: light, medium, heavy (however you pick it, or just go by weight classes)

I guess my point is comparisons aren't clear and setting simple measurements like a 300 lbs bench doesn't really work. a 148er benching 300 is way more impressive than a 181er, etc.


What do you guys think?

[iron addict]

Those numbers are pretty close to what I believe, a little light on the advanced side, but close.

I have guys that have trained less than a year and a half pulling 450 happening pretty frequently.

IA

[Techno]

what if happens if one of those numbers is out of range. I can deadlift way more than 450lbs but can only bench 200lbs.

[Hoops]

Where is your squat?

[Techno]

hehe, I forgot to mention that. my squat is just fine. its my bench thats the worst.

[Sand Blaster]

Minimum Intermediate:
Bench = 225
Squat = 315
Deadlift = 365

Minimum Advanced:
Bench = 300
Squat = 450
Deadlift = 450

IMO, those numbers should be done for about five reps at those stages, not just singles, and with a belt and maybe knee wraps only.

In general I think the bench numbers are low. Why? Because the upper body for many is what takes experience to make grow. The lower body responds differently for many trainees and doesn't require the same kind of personal education.

Case in point. I could bench 185 x 1 the first time I went into a gym. Within 5 months I was doing 225 x 2, and I was NOT an intermediate lifter. Over the next few years I hit 275 once or twice, but normally my bench was about 245-250. I was still a beginner because I didn't know how to raise my bench up. My first WSB program for the bench, I went from 275ish to 315 x 2, clean, no supplements. At that point, I had learned enough to be considered an intermediate. Since then I have taken my bench to 420ish and still continue to gain.

I am NOT a natural bencher at all. I was squatting and deadlifting 455 x 2 easy, when I benching 245-250.

A 225 bench is not much of a bench at all and should be done by most trainees within a year of training. IMO, that is beginner territory. Of course, it matters your BW too, etc...but for the average gym rat, it's not impressive.

SB

[Techno]

guess I need to learn how to improve my bench then. would inclines or declines count.

[Diesel46]

The only time my bench was any good was when I was doing it every week, was doing sets of 270 for 10 reps within a year of starting training. Havnt done it in ages so tryed it out the other day and got 1 rep with 270, not happy. Bringing up my bench is my new priority

[synthetickiller]

Well, I've noticed a few things you guys bring up. I guess I'm a little confused.

These numbers correlate to a 1RM or for triples, fives? I think if you're just working out, triples or fives is great. If you're a powerlifter, 1RM is all that matters.

I can't stress it enough, but body weight is also an issue. You can't compare a 150 lbs guy to a 250 lbs guy. 25 lbs of body weight is a lot. 50 is a ton and 100+ is well, out of this world.

Another consideration is age. Ghostfacekilla ( at least this is how I take it) is discourage that I lift more, even though I am older and use equipment. Its not fair since I am what, 4 or 5 years older. Same goes for the guys in here that have been training for years (10+) compared to me.

Sandblaster, you mention that people should bench 225 within a year of training. My bench is really pitiful then. I started lifting @ 132 lbs and got up to a 205x1 touch and go. Took about a year. Then I got injured. From there, I took about 6 years to move from a 205 lbs bench, touch and go, to a 290 lbs bench, paused. I also gained 60 lbs. Looking back, it took me 2 more years to break through the 225 barrier from that 205 lbs bench. Sometimes a guy plateaus and just goes nowhere. I guess being "advanced" is knowing what to do to get past that barrier, not exactly getting to a 300 or 400 lbs bench. Some might do everything right and just not achieve that level. Then again, if you can't get there, you must not be advanced.

Unless you use powerlifting standards for classifications, i don't know of any other way to compare. Just my two cents. (Clearly you can see I am biased, but hey, it works for me :D)

[shamoo]

Bench is the worst lift for me. Honestly I think if the first time you hit the gym you put up 185 you have some bench talent. I struggled with a few reps just using the bar my first time in the gym. Shit, I don't remember what I was lifting in my avatar but it wasn't even 135 I can tell you that. A couple years later (through several non lifting related injuries) I am able to do 200 for 5. for me that is 150lb increase and I am very happy about that. Bench is my worst lift BY FAR. for me to get to 225 in a yeaqr would be putting 180lbs on my bench in one year. Maybe if I had perfect diet and training that would have been possible, but then I wouldn't have been a beginner now, would I?

[sparkymark7]

Honestly I think if the first time you hit the gym you put up 185 you have some bench talent. ?

Agreed. There are a handful of guys benching over 220 in my gym and they're all 200+ and solid. Most are benching around 120 for a few sets of maybe five reps with their friends helping them. My first bench at the gym was 88lbs.

My brother is on the national ski team and when his whole team tested their 1 rep maxes only one person scored over 220 and he's considered a legend in their circles. He also had a recent stay at the rehab centre and got to train with a sprinter who they believe is going to be the first british white guy to break ten seconds in the 100m. His 1 rep max was 198lbs. Now I know none of these people are involved in sports which would particularly require benching but they are all world class athletes that have trained bench to some extent.

I also know rugby players who are strong on the field who think I'm insane for benching 187lbs.... honestly. For a lot of people, bench is a whole lot harder than the other two.

[Swellin]

Minimum Intermediate:
Bench = 225
Squat = 315
Deadlift = 365

Minimum Advanced:
Bench = 300
Squat = 450
Deadlift = 450

IMO, those numbers should be done for about five reps at those stages, not just singles, and with a belt and maybe knee wraps only.

In general I think the bench numbers are low. Why? Because the upper body for many is what takes experience to make grow. The lower body responds differently for many trainees and doesn't require the same kind of personal education.

Case in point. I could bench 185 x 1 the first time I went into a gym. Within 5 months I was doing 225 x 2, and I was NOT an intermediate lifter. Over the next few years I hit 275 once or twice, but normally my bench was about 245-250. I was still a beginner because I didn't know how to raise my bench up. My first WSB program for the bench, I went from 275ish to 315 x 2, clean, no supplements. At that point, I had learned enough to be considered an intermediate. Since then I have taken my bench to 420ish and still continue to gain.

I am NOT a natural bencher at all. I was squatting and deadlifting 455 x 2 easy, when I benching 245-250.

A 225 bench is not much of a bench at all and should be done by most trainees within a year of training. IMO, that is beginner territory. Of course, it matters your BW too, etc...but for the average gym rat, it's not impressive.

SB
I agree with you on all points SB.

I would also add that I don't think weight is very indicative of status. I look at lifters in terms of their achievement and knowledge. I think you set minimums for weight, but just because you can bench 375/squat 550/dead 550, I don't think that makes you an advanced trainee. I know guys that are strong in spite of what they do in the gym, and not because of it. I would not consider them advanced...I would call them strong.

But that's just my way of looking at it.

[shamoo]

I agree with you on all points SB.

I would also add that I don't think weight is very indicative of status. I look at lifters in terms of their achievement and knowledge. I think you set minimums for weight, but just because you can bench 375/squat 550/dead 550, I don't think that makes you an advanced trainee. I know guys that are strong in spite of what they do in the gym, and not because of it. I would not consider them advanced...I would call them strong.

But that's just my way of looking at it.

This sounds more accurate to me. I have a weak bench and I know it. But to say that it reflects I have no idea what I am doing is an overstatement (I know a little :D)

[iron addict]

Ain't that the truth. I met a guy that weighted about 170 that pulled 460 the first time he ever tried. Some people have a shitload of fast twitch muscle, and super motor unit reqruitment.

I test most of my training clients to determine muscle fiber type and LOTS of guys are almost all slow twitch. They are just not destined to hit big strength numbers no matter what they do, but that doesn't mean they can't make dramatic improvement in both strength and size.

IA

[Techno]

that guy reminds me of myself when I first performed deads. too bad the first time I benched it was something like 70lbs

[Vivi Ornitier]

My bench still sucks, and seems not to be going up :'(
i'm nowere near being intermediate, you guys all suck being stronger then me :P
stats for those who want to laugh.
curerntly doing:
Dead: 8 x 110 kg (242.5lbs)
Bench: 8 x 55 kg (122 lbs, makes me wanna cry)
Squat(boxsquat): 8 x 80 kg (176 lbs)
all @ 65 kg (145 lbs)
don't know my 1RM of these but this is what i pulled last week but my bench is the worst thing ever, can't seem to get it up to something reasonable,squat is probably gonna come up fast since i just started them and wanted to work up slowly, hoping to hit 100 kg (220lbs) next month.

[Swellin]

My bench still sucks, and seems not to be going up :'(
i'm nowere near being intermediate, you guys all suck being stronger then me :P
stats for those who want to laugh.
curerntly doing:
Dead: 8 x 110 kg (242.5lbs)
Bench: 8 x 55 kg (122 lbs, makes me wanna cry)
Squat(boxsquat): 8 x 80 kg (176 lbs)
all @ 65 kg (145 lbs)
don't know my 1RM of these but this is what i pulled last week but my bench is the worst thing ever, can't seem to get it up to something reasonable,squat is probably gonna come up fast since i just started them and wanted to work up slowly, hoping to hit 100 kg (220lbs) next month.
What you have to realize is that many of the folks putting up numbers weigh a great deal more than you and have been lifting longer than you. There is certainly no reason to be down on yourself for any of your lifts. You compete against yourself and not the rest of the world. that is the only way to make YOU better. You have to beat the YOU from yesterday. If you get too worked up looking at your numbers against anybody else's numbers, it can get in your head and cause you to fail. Let's just focus on getting yours up and not worrying about anybody else.

[Formula8]

Well I guess I seem to be in the minority as far as which lifts I'm good at. Bench is by far my best lift 315 @ 170lbs. I however squat like a 10 yr. old girl (185x8, never tested 1RM). I guess I could attribute that to years of not working legs and placing lots of focus on bench. :pat:

[weee]

Well, I've always known it but I majorly lag in the squats area, mostly because I never have known and am still working on learning how to do them, not natural feeling at all.

If not for squats I'm damn near those minimum intermediate numbers listed, good thing I have IA to do the thinking in terms of routine now!

[Richard85]

right now i weigh about 188... bench is around 265, squat is around 320, and dead is around 375-380.... so it looks like my numbers are kinda screwed up lol